EWTN Live – 2019-09-12 – 09/11/19 Fr. Charles Connor

EWTN Live – 2019-09-12 – 09/11/19 Fr. Charles Connor


[MUSIC] [APPLAUSE]>>Fr. Pacwa: WELCOME, I’M FATHER MITCH PACWA AND WELCOME TO EWTN LIVE, WHERE WE BRING YOU GUESTS FROM AROUND THE WORLD. WE’RE TALKING TODAY WITH A GREAT FRIEND OF MY OWN AND OF THE NETWORK AND TOP NOTCH CHURCH HISTORIAN, FATHER CHARLES CONNOR. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT CATHOLICISM DURING THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR AND HOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THIS COUNTRY WORKED AND PRAYED FOR THE SUCCESS OF BOTH SIDES. BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, WE WANT TO TALK BRIEFLY WITH EWTN’S DIRECTOR OF ACQUISITIONS AND COPRODUCTIONS, JOHN ELSON ABOUT A BRAND NEW TELEVISION PROGRAM THAT WE’RE GOING TO HAVE ON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN KOREA. AND DEBUTING SOON. JOHN, YOU DOING FINE?>>DOING GREAT. GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.>>GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE. THIS IS ABOUT THE KOREAN CHURCH.>>FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 20, WE’RE PREMIERING A NEW PROGRAM, CATHOLIC MARTYRS, KOREAN MARTYRS. AND IT’S DEDICATED TO THREE OF THEM. CATHOLIC KOREA, THE MARTYRS. AND IT TALKS ABOUT THE BRUTAL PERSECUTION OF CATHOLICS IN KOREA IN 18 HUNDREDS. AND WE KNOW THAT THE FAITH WAS BROUGHT TO CHINA AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, JESUIT MISSIONARIES BROUGHT THE FAITH TO NEIGHBORING KOREA. AND DURING THAT TIME, THERE’S TWO CHARACTERISTICS OF KOREA THAT IS IMPORTANT TO MENTION, JOSEPHINE DYNASTY THAT RULED THE COUNTRY, AND IT WAS HIERARCHAL AND MOTIVATED BY A CONFUCIAN IDEOLOGY. WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT THE CONFUCIAN WAS BASED ON FIVE PRIMARY PRINCIPLES. MAN AND WOMAN, PARENT AND CHILD, THE KING AND THE SERVANT. ALTHOUGH THE ELITES INITIALLY WERE INTRIGUED BY THIS CHRISTIANITY AND CATHOLICISM BECAUSE THEY SAW IT AS DRIVING THE PROGRESS OF THE WESTERN WORLD. HOWEVER, AS THE CATHOLICS IN KOREA BEGAN TO HAVE PRAYER MEETINGS, THEY CALLED THEM IN THEIR KOREAN LANGUAGE, THE GATHER OF FRIENDS. SO, THESE ARISTOCRATIC POOR AND RICH PEOPLE WERE ALL PRAYING TOGETHER AND THAT WAS SEEN AS THREATENING TO THE CONFUCIAN HIERARCHAL DIVISIONS OF PEOPLE. CATHOLICS CLAIMED ALL WERE EQUAL, ALL MADE IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD. SO, ALSO, THEY PROCLAIMED THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS THE TRUE KING. SO, THEREFORE, THE KING OF KOREA SAW IT AS A EXISTENTIAL PROBLEM –>>HEROD HAD THE SAME PROBLEM!>>SO IN 1876, HE OUTLAWED ON BANNED CATHOLICISM IN THE COUNTRY. ANYBODY SEEN OR EXPRESSED THEIR FAITH OR TRIED TO PROMULGATE THE FAITH WAS BRUTALLY MARTYRED. AND THAT CAUSED MANY CATHOLICS TO FLEE INTO THE FORESTS AND MOUNTAINS OF KOREA AND MANY BECAME EARTHEN WARE POTTERS. AND THEY SERVED AS THE PRE MODERN REFRIGERATORS AND THEY DID THAT TO SURVIVE ECONOMICALLY. ALSO, IT ALLOWED THEM TO SPREAD THE FAITH? WHY. BECAUSE THE POTTERS WERE THE LOWEST OF THE LOWEST RUNG IN SOCIETY. AND THEY PUT NOTES IN THE POTS MAKING ETCHINGS, WRITINGS, AND CATECHETICAL MESSAGES IN THE POTS. AND THE FAITH WAS ABLE TO GROW DESPITE THE PERSECUTION. WE HAVE A SHORT CLIP HERE FOR YOU.>>Fr. Pacwa: YEAH, LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT THE CLIP QUICKLY.>>35 MILES NORTH OF SEOUL LIES ONE OF THE MOST HEAVILY GUARDED BORDERS IN THE WORLD, NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA. BUT IN THE PAST, THIS WAS ONE COUNTRY, IT WAS KOREA. CHRISTIANITY HAD ALREADY BEGUN TO SPREAD IN NEIGHBORING COUNTRY CHINA IN THE 17 HUNDREDS. AND DURING TRIPS TO KOREA, A NUMBER OF JESUIT MISSIONARIES BROUGHT WITH THEM PHILOSOPHICAL LITERATURE AND CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHINGS. PREVIOUSLY, THE KING WAS IN ESSENCE THEIR GOD. BUT THEN THIS NEW RELIGION TAUGHT PEOPLE THAT THE ONE WHO REALLY REIGNS IS JESUS CHRIST. IN AN EFFORT TO STOP THE SPREAD OF CHRISTIANITY, THE KING DECLARED CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE PUSHED TO THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE CLASS STRUCTURE AND ORDERED THAT THOSE CAUGHT PRACTICING THEIR FAITH OR HELPING IN THE SPREAD OF THE FAITH BE TORTURED AND KILLED. A FIGHT FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM TO THE DEATH.>>Fr. Pacwa: THIS IS GOING TO BE SHOWN ON FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 20 AT 5:30PM EASTERN TIME. THEN IT WILL BE SHOWN AGAIN ON SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 21ST, 2:30AM EASTERN TIME. AND ALSO, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE WEB SITE, EWTN, ewtn.com, IT’S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE KOREA IS ON ITS WAY TO BECOMING A FULLY CHRISTIAN COUNTRY, THE SECOND ONE IN ASIA AFTER THE PHILIPPINES. VERY EXCITING.>>IT REALLY IS.>>Fr. Pacwa: JOHN, THANK YOU AND TONIGHT WE’LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH TONIGHT’S GUEST, FATHER CONNOR. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE]>>Fr. Pacwa: THANK YOU. THANK YOU AND WELCOME BACK. OUR GUEST TONIGHT IS A GOOD FRIEND. HE’S A PROFESSOR AT MOUNT SAINT MARY SEMINARY, NOTED CHURCH HISTORIAN AND HIS LATEST PROJECT DETAILS THE RISE OF A UNIQUELY AMERICAN PART OF CATHOLICISM BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR, DURING THE CIVIL WAR, AND THEN IN THE PERIOD OF THE RECONSTRUCTION AFTERWARDS. AND THAT THE DEADLIEST OF ALL AMERICAN WARS ENCULTURATED A CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THIS COUNTRY. THE COMBINATION OF VISIONARY LEADERSHIP AND MORAL BLINDNESS, NOT UNLIKE THE SITUATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN THE COUNTRY AND INCLUDING IN THE CHURCH TODAY. SO, PLEASE, WELCOME, AUTHOR OF FAITH AND FURY, THE RISE OF CATHOLICISM DURING THE CIVIL WAR. FATHER CHARLES CONNOR.>>Guest: FATHER, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU. I MUST START OFF AND STATE MY DISAPPOINTMENT. YOU SAID MOUNT SAINT MARY AND YOU DIDN’T SAY WHERE IT WAS. THERE’S TWO MOUNT SAINT MARYS, ONE IN ST. MATTHEW. AND WE ARE THE MOUNT SAINT MARY AND EMMETTSBURG, MARYLAND. AND YOU KNOW, THAT’S A WONDERFUL SEMINARY.>>AND I’VE BEEN TO THE ONE IN ST. MATTHEW ONLY — CINCINNATI.>>NOW, GIVE US A TREAT AND I’LL PUT A BUG IN THE RECTOR’S EAR, WONDERFUL RECTOR, DOCTOR ANDREW BAKER GAVE ME INSTRUCTIONS THAT I NEED TO MENTION MOUNT SAINT MARY IN EMMETTSBURG FIVE TIMES. YOU THINK I CAN DO THAT? WE’LL HAVE TO MENTION MOUNT SAINT MARY A SEMINARY FILLED ALMOST TO CAPACITY, A SEMINARY OF MARVELOUS, MARVELOUS YOUNG MEN, MOUNT SAINT MARY.>>RIGHT. NOT ONLY MOUNT SAINT MARY, EMMETTSBURG, FOURTH TIME. AND ANOTHER NUMBER OF SEMINARIES ARE ALSO CHOCKFUL AT THIS TIME.>>Guest: YES, THEY ARE.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THAT’S A GOOD THING, CHOCKFUL.>>Guest: BUT NOT AS FINE AS OURS, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.>>Fr. Pacwa: I DON’T NEED TO STEP IN THAT MESS!>>Guest: NO, BUT I’M HAPPY TO BE ON THE AIR AND SAY THAT AND TALKING ABOUT THE MARVELOUS QUALITY OF THE SEMINARIANS IN THE SEMINARIES TODAY. NOW, ON TO THE CIVIL WAR.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THE SECOND PART OF YOUR SERIES, HAVE YOU DONE A SERIES OF BOOKS, AND THE FIRST ONE WAS ABOUT THE EARLY PIONEER PRIESTS DURING THE COLONIAL PERIOD.>>REVOLUTIONARY, CONSTITUTIONAL AND EARLY NATIONAL.>>AND THIS IS THE SEQUEL TO IT. WE’LL BE LOOKING FOR THE NEXT ONE.>>WELL, IT’S ABOUT TO GET STARTED.>>Fr. Pacwa: GOOD. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LOVED ABOUT YOUR BOOK, YOU REALLY PREPARE FOR UNDERSTANDING WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY PRIOR TO THE CIVIL WAR. YOU DON’T JUST GO INTO THE BATTLES. THE INTERESTING THING, LOTS OF DOCUMENTARIES ON THAT, BUT YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THE CIVIL WAR WITHOUT KNOWING MORE THAN 20-30 YEARS EARLIER. JUST GIVE US A QUICK RUNDOWN OF SOME OF THE KEY ELEMENTS THAT PREPARED THE WAY FOR THIS CATASTROPHE.>>Guest: ABSOLUTELY. WELL, YOU HAVE, AS YOU SAY, YOU HAVE TO GO BACK A NUMBER OF DECADES TO REALLY UNDERSTAND. AND THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE PICTURE, WHAT LED UP TO THE, LET’S SAY, THE PERIOD, OH, 20 YEARS PRIOR TO THE PERIOD OF WHAT WE CALL THE COMING OF THE CIVIL WAR. THEN THE PERIOD WE CALL THE COMING OF THE CIVIL WAR, 1848 TO THE OUTBREAK OF HOSTILITIES IN 1861, FOUR YEARS OF THE WAR AND FINALLY RECONSTRUCTION. ALL OF THESE PUT TOGETHER CONTINUALLY PROVE THE TRUTH OF WHAT CARDINAL JOHN HENRY NEWMAN ONCE SAID ABOUT THE STUDY OF CHURCH HISTORY. NO SOONER DO WE FINISH CHATTING THE ALLELUIAS DO WE SING OUR MEMORARES. AND IT’S THE HIGH, LOWS AND SUCCESSES. AND THIS IS REALLY THE STORY OF CATHOLICISM SINCE 1634. AND IN THIS CASE, SOME OF THE POINTS WE TRY TO MAKE IN FAITH AND FURY, WHICH IND PENT ALLY MY RECTOR TELLS ME, SHOULD HAVE TITLED IT, HOW I SURVIVED THE BATTLE OF GETTYSBURG. CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT? WELL, KIND OF GO BACK THAT FAR.>>Fr. Pacwa: WELL, YOU ARE YOUNGER THAN I AM! ONE YEAR.>>Guest: SAME DAY, ONE YEAR. OKAY. WELL, IN ANY EVENT, AS YOU LOOK AT THIS PARTICULAR PERIOD OF THE UNITED STATES CATHOLIC HISTORY, YOU HAVE TO PREFACE IT WITH THE DECADES THAT WENT BEFORE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE TREMENDOUS INFLUX OF CATHOLIC IMMIGRANTS COMING INTO THE UNITED STATES. IT WAS BECOMING THE CHURCH OF THE URBAN, CITY DWELLER. VERY MUCH AN ARISTOCRATIC SETTING IN COLONIAL MARYLAND, THE PEOPLE THAT THE JESUITS WORKED W. AND NOW, YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS INFLUX OF IRELAND, CERTAINLY, WOULD BE THE GREATEST COUNTRY NUMERICALLY AND FOLLOWING THE MIGRATION OF THE GERMANS AND SOMEWHAT LESS IN NUMBER IN THOSE YEARS BUT STILL VERY SIGNIFICANT. AND THE IRISH LARGELY STAYED ON THE EASTERN SEABOARD.>>AND THE GERMANS WANTED TO GROW UP AND BE FARMERS AND THE IRISH TENDED TO STAY MORE URBAN, WHICH YOU BRING OUT, THE DISAPPOINTMENT IN FARMING THAT LED TO THE FAMINE AND MADE THEM NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.>>AND YET ARCHBISHOP WAS VERY MUCH OPPOSED FOR ANY TYPE OF WESTERN COLONIZATION FOR THEM BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE TOO SEPARATED FROM THE MAINSTREAM OF THE AMERICAN LIFE IF THEY DID THAT, SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH. IN ANY EVENT, CITY DWELLERS, THE IRISH AND THEN THE GERMANS. AND WITH THE TREMENDOUS CATHOLIC POURING INTO THE COUNTRY, YOU HAD A BACKLASH ON THE PART OF PROTESTANT AMERICA. IT WAS ONE GROUP VS. ANOTHER. GROUP SECURITY AND THERE HAD BEEN GROUP SECURITY SINCE THE HE EARLY COLONIAL PERIOD. AND NOW THAT GROUP SECURITY WAS BEING THREATENED AND THE RESPONSE OF THE THREATENING WAS THE NATIVE UPRISING, NATIVIST UPRISING IF YOU WILL, WHICH TRACES ORIGINS UNTIL THE 1830S, STAYED STRONG IN THE 40’S AND STRONGER IN THE 50’S. AND WHAT YOU HAVE IN THE ALL-ENCOMPASSING TERM, NATIVISM, YOU HAD A GREAT DEAL OF STUMP ORATORY, LYMON BEECH, FATHER OF HARRIETTE BEECH STOWE, WROTE UNCLE TOM’S CABIN. AND WANTING TO POUNCE ON THE CHURCH EVERY OPPORTUNITY HE COULD, AND HE WAS VERY, VERY VO KA CALL IN OPPOSITION TO THE CHURCH. AND YOU HAD ORATORY AND YOU HAD SCURRILOUS, SCURRILOUS LITERATURE WRITTEN AND REBEKAH MONK, SIX MONTHS IN A CONVENT, WORK BY SAMUEL MORRIS OF TELEGRAPH FAME, AND WILLIAM CRAIG BROWNLEE’S AMERICAN PROTESTANT VINDICATOR AND ON AND ON.>>AND PEOPLE DON’T REALIZE THAT SAMUEL MORSE, OF MORSE CODE AND THE TELEGRAPH, WAS VERY, VERY ANTI-CATHOLIC.>>BLATANTLY ANTI-CATHOLIC. SO, YOU HAVE THE LITERATURE, ORATORY AND THEN YOU HAVE EPISODES OF THE VIOLENCE, BURNING OF THE URSULINE CONVENT IN MASSACHUSETTS IN 1830’S. KENSINGTON RIOTS IN PHILADELPHIA MID 1840S. AND THEN THE 1850’S, RISE OF THE NO NOTHING PARTY WHICH BECAME EXTREMELY VOCAL DURING THE VISIT OF THE ARCHBISHOP BENTINI, WHICH WAS A STORY IN ITSELF. THESE THINGS ARE BUILDING UP AND UP, AND ON THE ONE HAND, WE’RE GETTING A TREMENDOUS GROWTH OF THE PHYSICAL PLANT OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT TREMENDOUS OPPOSITION HAD BEEN VERY, VERY FORTHCOMING IN THE 1930’S, 1940’S, AND 1950’S. AND OUR FOREBEARERS KNEW BIGOTRY BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT INSIDE AND OUT, BECAUSE THEY WERE THE VICTIMS OF IT SO MANY TIMES. WHEN WE COME TO THE WAR ITSELF, WE HAVE HAD VERY, VERY MUCH TO SHIFT AWAY. PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO BE OCCUPIED WITH FIGHTING THE CATHOLICS WHEN YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS MELANCHOLY DIPLOMATIC STRIFE AS ARCHBISHOP SAID THAT AND BEGAN WITH THE BOMBARDMENT OF FORT SUMTER IN 1954. SO YOU HAVE FOUR YEARS OF WAR. AND IF ANYTHING POSITIVE CAN BE SAID COMING OUT OF A WAR, ONE THING POSITIVE FOR THE CHURCH WAS THE TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY THAT HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS OF HUNDREDS ENLISTED MEN, CATHOLIC ENLISTED MEN WERE ABLE, IN THE SERVICE THEY WERE ABLE TO PERFORM FOR RESPECTIVE GOVERNMENTS, WHETHER IT WAS THE UNION OR THE CONFEDERACY VERY, VERY MUCH FIGHTING AND PART AND PARCEL OF THE CONFLICT. THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS COULD LOOK AT THIS EXPRESSION OF PATRIOTISM, IF YOU WILL, THIS EXPRESSION OF FIGHTING WHAT YOU BELIEVED IN, EVEN TO THE POINT OF GOING TO WAR AND FIGHTING TO THE ENTH DEGREE, LET US SAY. AND YOU KNOW, IT REALLY CONTRIBUTED FOR SOME YEARS TO A TEMPERING OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN MIND ON THE SUBJECT OF CATHOLICS. WELL, MAYBE THESE CATHOLICS AREN’T THAT BAD AFTER ALL. AS I SAID THAT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAD. ALMOST SEEMS LIKE A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS TALKING ABOUT THE KILLINGS OF WAR AND ALL THAT WAR IMPLIES.>>Fr. Pacwa: BUT THAT’S HAPPENED IN OTHER TIMES TOO, IN THE WORLD WARS. CATHOLICS FIGHTING ALONGSIDE EVERYBODY ELSE. AND IN KOREA, THAT HAPPENED FOR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AS WELL. THAT THE MILITARY GAVE A CERTAIN KIND OF CAMARADERIE THAT HAD TO SEE EACH OTHER IN BATTLE AS EQUALS. SO, ITS HAD THAT FACTOR, AND BY POPULAR, I MEAN BY THE ARMY OF THE POPULACE RATHER THAN A PROFESSIONAL ARMY.>>Guest: ABSOLUTELY TRUE.>>Fr. Pacwa: THAT’S ONE ELEMENT. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK ALSO IS IMPORTANT ABOUT YOUR SECTION ON 1848 TO 1860 IS, WHAT WAS THE WAR ABOUT? YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PEOPLES EMPHASIZE, ESPECIALLY SOUTHERNERS THAT IT WAS THE STATES’ RIGHTS. NORTHERNERS WILL EMPHASIZE THAT IT WAS TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY OF THE COUNTRY.>>Guest: YEAH, THAT’S RIGHT.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THE UNSPOKEN ISSUE WAS SLAVERY.>>SLAVERY HOWEVER WAS A MANIFESTATION OF REALLY WHAT THE WAR WAS FOUGHT OVER. AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THESE VARIOUS THEORIES OF GOVERNMENT. THAT’S WHAT WE WERE FIGHTING ABOUT. SLAVERY WAS THE MANIFESTATION OF THAT. AND SO, YOU HAD IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAD THE, WHAT WE CALL THE ORGANIC THEORY OF GOVERNMENT, THEORY THAT MOST OF OUR POLITICIANS AND SO FORTH WOULD HAVE ESPOUSED. THEORY OF GOVERNMENT THAT SAID THAT 13 STATES ORIGINALLY HAD COME TOGETHER AND THEY CREATED A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF EXPRESSED AND ENUMERATED, DELEGATED AND IMPLIED POWERS. ANY RESIDUAL POWERS THAT WERE LEFT OVER SHOULD WE SAY WERE TO BE LEFT TO THE INDIVIDUAL CONCERNS OF THOSE 13 STATES. NOW, THE COMPACT THEORY OF GOVERNMENT WAS SOMETHING VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. THE COMPACT THEORY OF GOVERNMENT WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SOUTHERN POSITION AND THE POSITION CONSTITUTIONALLY IN THEIR MINDS JUSTIFYING THE EXISTENCE OF SLAVERY SAID THAT THERE WERE 13 INDIVIDUAL STATES WHO MAINTAINED THEIR SOVEREIGNTY WHO GAVE THIS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT JUST AS MUCH POWER AS THEY THOUGHT IT SHOULD HAVE AND NOT A BIT MORE. AND IF THAT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, FORM USURPED THAT WHICH THEY HAD GIVEN OR USURPED THAT THEY THOUGHT WAS THE PREROGATIVE OF THE GOVERNMENT THEY CREATED THEN THEY WERE PERFECTLY FREE TO WITHDRAW FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND FOR THAT MATTER, CREATE ANOTHER ONE, I SUPPOSE. THAT WAS THE THEORY. AND SLAVERY WAS SIMPLY THE PARTICULAR ISSUE OVER WHICH THEY WERE FIGHTING. BUT IT WAS A DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURE. AND WE ALSO, I THINK, HAVE TO REMEMBER HERE THAT CATHOLICS IN THE UNITED STATES WERE JUST AS DIVIDED SECTIONALLY AS WERE ALL OF THE OTHER FELLOW AMERICANS. A STUDY OF THE CHURCH REALLY TEACHES US THIS. AND YOU WILL FIND IT VERY CLEARLY AMONG THE HIERARCHY, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU HAVE THE FAMOUS, HUGHES-WENCH CORRESPONDENT. JOHN HUGHES, GRADUATE OF MOUNT SAINT MARY IN EMMETTSBURG, MARYLAND.>>Fr. Pacwa: THAT’S FIVE TIMES.>>I THOUGHT IT WAS ONLY THREE? YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?>>Fr. Pacwa: I KNOW. I KNOW.>>Guest: HE WAS ONE OF OUR ESTEEMED GRADUATES; AND ONE OF THE CABINS THAT HE LIVED IN IS STILL ON OUR GROUNDS THERE. AND JOHN HUGHES CARRIED ON CORRESPONDENCE WITH BISHOP LYNCH OF CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA. AND IF YOU EVER WANTED THIS EXPRESSED, BY TWO BISHOPS IN A CORRESPONDENCE OF STORIES AND NEWSPAPERS, THERE YOU HAVE IT. AND ANOTHER THING ABOUT BOTH HUGHES AND LYNCH, WHICH I THINK PROVES HIS POINT, IS THE FACT THAT BOTH OF THESE MEN UNDERTOOK DIPLOMATIC MISSIONS FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE GOVERNMENTS. ARCHBISHOP HUGHES WENT TO FRANCE AT THE BEHEST OF THE LINCOLN ADMINISTRATION AND MOST PARTICULARLY OF STATE WILLIAM SWORD, GREAT AND CLOSE CLOSE FRIEND OF HUGHES. AND PROBABLY LOST THE NOMINATION.>>AND THAT WAS SEWARD WHO BOUGHT ALASKA.>>AND SAME SEWARD WHO BOUGHT NEW YORK AND FAVORED THE CAUSE OF FINANCIAL AID TO CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WHEN HE WAS WITH THE BISHOP IN HIS EARLY YEARS IN NEW YORK. AND IN 1860, THEY WERE A NEW PARTY AND THEY KNEW THEY HAD TO HAVE A CERTAIN DEGREE OF KNOW-NOTHING SUPPORT TO WIN THE NOMINATION. THE NO-NOTHINGS WOULD NOT SUPPORT IT IF SEWARD WAS THE NOMINEE BECAUSE HE HAD A ONE TIME WAS FAVORING CATHOLIC INTERESTS. SO HE WAS KNOCKED OUT AND IT WENT TO LINCOLN INSTEAD. BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE OF SEWARD, ARCHBISHOP HUGHES TOOK THIS TO FRANCE. HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN THE FACT THAT HE DID INDEED SECURE FRENCH NEUTRALITY. AND BISHOP HUGHES AT THE JEFFERSON DAVIS –>>LYNCH.>>I’M SORRY. PATRICK NEESON LYNCH, AT THE REQUEST OF JEFFERSON DAVIS AND HIS SECRETARY OF STATE JUDAH P. BENJAMIN UNDERTOOK A MISSION TO THE VATICAN. AND THE PURPOSE OF THAT MISSION WAS TO SECURE OFFICIAL VATICAN RECOGNITION FOR THE LEGITIMACY OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF UNITED STATES. AND IN THAT SENSE, HE WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL IN THAT MISSION. NOW, THE POINT OF IT IS, THE POLITICAL DIVISIONS THAT DIVIDED ALL OF AMERICA DIVIDED CATHOLICS AS WELL. BUT THE UNITY — I KEEP INTERRUPTING YOU BUT HERE’S THE IMPORTANT THINGS. HERE’S THE UNITY OF THE DOCTRINAL UNITY OF THE CHURCH WAS NEVER FOR ONE SPLIT SECOND COMPROMISED.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THE ONLY THING I WAS GOING TO SAY WAS THAT THERE WERE ALSO DIVISIONS AMONG THE BISHOPS AS WELL AS THE LAITY ON THE ISSUE OF SLAVERY.>>VERY, VERY MUCH SO.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND POPE GREGORY XIV HAD REPEATED WHAT WAS STATED BY POPES GOING BACK TO THE 159 CENTURY WHEN THE ATLANTIC SLAVE TRADE STARTED OF THE. AND POPE GREGORY 16 SAID, IT WAS AUTOMATIC EXCOMMUNICATION.>>AND THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY, GREGORY MORALLY CONDEMNED, NOT JUST THE TRADE. BUT 0 POSITIVELY, YEAH, UNIVERSAL MORAL CONDEMNATION FOR CENTURIES BY VARIOUS POPES ADDRESSING THEMSELVES TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD. WE COME TO THE UNITED STATES, WHY DIDN’T IT HAPPEN HERE? THAT’S THE QUESTION.>>Fr. Pacwa: BECAUSE THEY WERE DIVIDED. WHY WERE THEY DIVIDED ON THIS CLEAR TEACHING?>>Guest: WELL, REMEMBER A FEW THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, WHEN WE WERE COMING TO, APPROACHING THE CIVIL WAR IN THESE YEARS, WE WERE REALLY THE LAST VESTIGE IN WESTERN CIVILIZATION THAT HUNG ON TO THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY. ENGLAND ABOLISHED IT SOME 30 YEARS BEFORE WE DID. AND IT WAS AN EXISTING SOCIAL INSTITUTION IN THIS COUNTRY, REALLY SINCE THE 1607 WITH THE COLONIZATION OF VIRGINIA AND CONTRIBUTED TO THE ECONOMIC AGGRANDIZEMENT OF THE SOUTH, AND IT WAS FOUND PRIMARILY THERE AS WE KNOW SO WELL. IT WAS VERY, VERY MUCH A LOCAL GEOGRAPHIC CONCERN, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT THAT WAY. NOW, THERE WERE A FEW THINGS. IT HAD BEEN AN EXISTING SOCIAL INSTITUTION AS I SAY, SINCE 1607 AND NOW WE’RE 260 YEARS ALMOST REMOVED FROM THAT. THE BISHOPS, LIKE SO MANY OTHER AMERICANS, AND THAT’S WHY THE BISHOPS MAY NOT BE SINGLED OUT FOR GREAT CONSIDERATION HERE. IT’S CERTAINLY UNFAIR. BECAUSE THEY, LIKE THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, WERE OF A CONSERVATIVE NATURE AND DID NOT WANT TO OVERTHROW AN EXISTING SOCIAL INSTITUTION. YOU START TO LOOK LIKE YOU ARE SOME KIND OF FANATIC WHEN YOU DO IT. AND IF YOU GO BACK TO 1870 WE TALK ABOUT THE BEGINNINGS OF THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT. AND THE EARLY BEGINNING, LITERALLY ON NEW YEAR’S DAY 1830 WHEN WILLIAM LLOYD GARRISON WROTE THE FIRST ISSUE OF THE NEWSPAPER, THE LIBERATOR. THAT REALLY GOT THE ABOLITIONIST MOVEMENT GOING. THEY WERE POOR TRADE AND THEY WERE SEEN AS REAL EXTREMISTS. THESE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO DO AWAY WITH SLAVERY EXPRESSING A MORAL OPPOSITION. SO MANY AMERICANS LOOKED AT THEM. WELL, THERE’S SOMETHING KOOKY ABOUT THAT, PART OF THE, AND IT WAS CORRECT, MORAL OPPOSITION TO SLAVERY. THEY BELIEVED THAT SLAVERY WAS AN INSTITUTION THAT HELD HUMAN BEINGS IN BONDAGE. AND THEY WERE STRONGLY MORALLY OPPOSED TO IT. THE PROBLEM HOWEVER WAS THAT THEY ALSO BELIEVED THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS AN INSTITUTION WHICH HELD HUMAN BEINGS IN SPIRITUAL BONDAGE. PEOPLE ARE TOLD WHAT TO BELIEVE. PEOPLE ARE SUBJECT TO THE POPE. I MEAN, IT’S THIS VERY, VERY FOREIGN — AND WE WERE CONSIDERED THE FOREIGN ELEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES — WE WERE NOT REAL AMERICANS. WE WERE DIFFERENT. AND IN THE AMERICAN PROTESTANT MIND, WE SHOULD NOT BE HERE AT ALL. NOW, THAT BEING THE CASE, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE COULD OUR BISHOPS BEGIN TO AFFILIATE WITH THESE ABOLITIONISTS WHO HATED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS MUCH AS THEY HATED SLAVERY. HENCE, THERE’S A STRONG REASON THERE, THINK, WHY THE BISHOPS WOULD HAVE BEEN, MAY HAVE HAD PERSONAL MORAL OBJECTIONS THEMSELVES. BUT THEY WERE NOT GOING TO PUBLICLY UNITE THEMSELVES WITH THIS PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE. SO, WHAT THEY DID, HOWEVER, THEY CLEARLY DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY AS AN EXISTING SOCIAL INSTITUTION UPON WHICH VERY LITTLE COMMENT WAS MADE. BUT THE SLAVE TRADE, A STRONGER MORAL CONDEMNATION OF THE BUYING AND SELLING OF HUMAN BEINGS YOU WOULD NOT FIND FROM ANYBODY MORE SO THAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS IN THE UNITED STATES. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THEY PASTORALLY WENT ON TO TALK ABOUT THE VERY, VERY SERIOUS, MORAL OBLIGATIONS, THAT SLAVE OWNERS HAD IN REGARD TO THEIR SLAVES. TEACHING THEM RUDIMENTS OF THE FAITH, TEACHING BASIC ELEMENTS OF MORALITY SO FORTH AND SO ON, INSTRUCTING THEM AND GIVING THEM SACRAMENTS.>>AND THAT WAS ESPECIALLY TRUE IN THE OLD FRENCH COLONY AREA OF LOUISIANA.>>VERY MUCH LOUISIANA. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WHAT HAPPENED, OF COURSE, WITH THE WHOLE SLAVERY QUESTION, OBVIOUSLY WITH LINCOLN’S EMANCIPATION AND SO FORTH IN 63, THE SADDER CHAPTER, THE VERY, VERY SAD CHAPTER IN THE UNITED STATES CATHOLIC HISTORY CAME VERY SHORTLY AFTER THE CIVIL WAR. IN FACT, JUST A YEAR AFTER. AND IN 1866, YOU HAD THE SECOND PLENARY COUNCIL OF BALTIMORE. THERE WAS A MOVE ON THE PART OF THE PARTICIPANTS, SOME OF THE PARTICIPANTS, A MOVE IN THE FAVOR OF STRONG EMPHASIS ON BLACK EVANGELIZATION FOLLOWING THE WAR. TAKING THE NEWLY FREED SLAVE POPULATION AND GOING, YOU KNOW, WITH VERY SERIOUS EVANGELIZING EFFORTS TO WHEREVER THEY WERE GOING TO BE FOUND, TO BRING THEM IN AND CONVERT THEM TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH. ARCHBISHOP OR — RATHER, CARDINAL MCCLOSKEY OF NEW YORK WHO BY THE WAY WAS A GRADUATE OF –>>Fr. Pacwa: MOUNT SAINT MARY IN EMMETTSBURG –>>Guest: POSITIVELY>>Fr. Pacwa: SIX!>>Guest: AND MCCLOSKEY WROTE A LETTER TO MARTIN JOHN SPAULDING, ARCHBISHOP OF BALTIMORE, TALKING ABOUT THE BLACK EVANGELIZATION. AND HE SAID, THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY AND IF IT IS LOST NOW IT MAY NEVER COME BACK AGAIN. IT WAS LOST AND MAY NEVER COME BACK.>>THAT’S RIGHT. HE WAS RIGHT.>>VERY, VERY SAD CHAPTER IN THE UNITED STATES CATHOLIC HISTORY>>Fr. Pacwa: AND IN GENERAL, THE CONFUSION, DURING RECONSTRUCTION IN THE SOUTH WAS ITSELF PAINFUL ON LOTS OF DIFFERENT LEVELS. YOU HAVE THE GOVERNMENT OF PRESIDENT ANDREW JOHNSON. NOT REALLY ENTHUSIASTIC HIMSELF. HE WAS HIMSELF FROM KENTUCKY.>>TENNESSEE.>>TENNESSEE. SO, HE WAS A SOUTHERNER HIMSELF. HE WAS A DEMOCRAT, NOT A REPUBLICAN AND LINCOLN INCORPORATED HIM.>>HIS WIFE TAUGHT HIM HOW TO READ AND WRITE. HE WAS A TAILOR.>>AND HIS EMPHASIS, I MEAN, SYMPATHIES ON RECONSTRUCTION WERE PROBLEMATIC. AND THEN GRANT’S ADMINISTRATION WAS TOO WEAK.>>HE WAS MILITANTLY ANTI-CATHOLIC AND WE’LL GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT IF WE CAN. I WANT TO BACK TRACK FOR A MOMENT BEFORE THE COUNCIL IN BALTIMORE IN 1866, IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF LINCOLN’S ASSASSINATION, YOU HAD THE FACT THAT THE BOARDING HOUSE IN WASHINGTON WHERE BOOTH AND THE CONSPIRATORS MET AND PLANNED THE ABDUCTION AND MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT WAS OF COURSE OWNED BY MRS. MARY SURRAT, WHO WAS A DEVOUT PRACTICING CATHOLIC, AS WAS HER SON, JOHN SURRAT. AND THEN THE STORY OF BOOTH BREAKING HIS LEG WHEN HE FELL FROM THE PRESIDENTIAL BOOTH, AND HE LANDED DOWN ON THE STAGE AND RAN OFF THE STAGE AND SO FORTH. OKAY. HE MADE HIS WAY TO SOUTHERN MARYLAND. AND IN SOUTHERN MARYLAND, HIS WOUNDS WERE TENDED TO BY DOCTOR SAMUEL MUDD, A DEVOUT CATHOLIC IN WALDORF, SOUTHERN MARYLAND. HE WAS WEARING A DISGUISE AND DOCTOR MUDD DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM. HE MET HIM ONCE BEFORE, A YEAR EARLIER AND BOOTH HAD ACTUALLY GONE THERE TO BUY A HORSE. AND DOCTOR MUDD MET HIM AT ST. MARY’S BRIANTOWN AND TOOK HIM TO THE TOWN WHERE HE HAD HIS HORSES AND BOOTH APPARENTLY BOUGHT HIS HORSE FROM HIM. A YEAR LATER, HE COMES WITH THESE SIDE BURNS THAT YOU GLUE ON AND A LARGE BEARD AND THE LIKE. AND THEN DOCTOR MUDD DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM. THE NEXT MORNING, MRS. MUDD RECORDS THIS, AND WE HAVE IT IN THE BOOK, AS JOHN WILKES BOOTH FRIEND WAS HELPING HIM OUT TO GO DOWN THE PORCH AND TO LEAVE, GET 0 ON THE HORSE AND LEAVE. SHE THOUGHT SHE COULD SEE SOME OF THE SIDE BURNS PULLING OFF. AND SHE GOT VERY SUSPICIOUS. SHE DIDN’T KNOW WHO IT WAS OF COURSE. BUT THE REASON WE TELL THESE STORIES, IMMEDIATELY THERE WAS A PERCEPTION IN THE NON CATHOLIC MIND THAT THERE WAS A CATHOLIC CONSPIRACY TO KILL LINCOLN. AND THIS WAS BLASTED OVER THE AMERICAN NEWSPAPERS. AND ONCE AGAIN, NO MORE THAN WHAT WE HAD IN THE 1840S, THE AMERICAN PERCENTAGE ANYWAY, THE AMERICAN READING PUBLIC WERE ONLY TOO DELIGHTED TO BELIEVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS. LINCOLN BY THE WAY HAD CATHOLIC FIRST COUSINS HIMSELF, ACTIVE IN HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN AND LINCOLN WAS ANTI-CATHOLIC AND THAT WAS KNOWN. BUT THEY WOULD BELIEVE ANYTHING DIVISIVE ABOUT THE CATHOLICS.>>AND MARIA MONK FALSEHOODS AND ALL OF THAT. YOU KNOW, LOOK. THIS IS A WONDERFUL BOOK. AND I HOPE YOU GET A CHANCE. BUT WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK RIGHT NOW. WE’LL COME BACK AND YOU MAY HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS FOR FATHER CONNOR AND COMMENTS ABOUT ALL OF THIS. SO, PLEASE, STAY WITH US. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE]>>Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU READY FOR SOME QUESTIONS>>Guest: I’M SURE WE HAVE QUESTIONS BUT WHETHER OR NOT I’M READY FOR ANSWERS. I DON’T KNOW.>>Fr. Pacwa: ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A PHONE CALL, HELLO, WHERE ARE YOU FROM?>>Voice: I’M FROM ELWOOD CITY, PENNSYLVANIA, JUST NORTH OF PITTSBURGH.>>Fr. Pacwa: WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION?>>I HAD A COMMENT. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE CIVIL WAR AND IN PITTSBURGH AT THE MUSEUM, THEY HAD A WHOLE PROGRAM ON THE CIVIL WAR AND IT WAS INTERESTING, TOLD ABOUT THE CATHOLIC NUNS THAT WERE THE NURSES DURING THE CIVIL WAR THAT TOOK CARE OF BOTH SIDES, BOTH THE SOUTH AND THE NORTHERN SOLDIERS. AT THE END OF THE WAR, PRESIDENT LINCOLN, I SAW THE LITTERS, HAD WRITTEN LETTERS TO THE GROUP OF NUNS THANKING THEM FOR THE SERVICE THAT THEY PUT FORTH. I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING>>Guest: ABSOLUTELY, INDEED IT IS. THERE’S AN IMPRESSIVE MONUMENT IN FRONT OF ST. MATTHEW’S CATHEDRAL IN WASHINGTON. THEIR WORK WAS INCALCULABLE THERE, OF THE NUNS THERE. THERE WERE AT LEAST FIVE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES THAT I RECALL OFFHAND THAT CONTRIBUTED. CERTAINLY THE LARGEST NUMBER, HOWEVER OF RELIGIOUS SISTERS WHO SERVED AS NURSES WERE OF COURSE, MOTHER SETON SISTERS OF CHARITY AND THEY WERE LOCATED IN –>>Fr. Pacwa: EMMETTSBURG, MARYLAND>>Guest: EXCELLENT. WHAT’S THAT, NOW, SEVEN TIMES? IN ANY EVENT, THEY PROVIDED THE LARGEST NUMBERS, SISTERS OF MERCY AND SISTERS OF THE LORETO.>>Fr. Pacwa: AND THE NATIONAL DOMINICANS. THEIR CONVENT IS UP ON A HILL ON THE NORTH SIDE OF NASHVILLE. VERY MUCH LOVED AS A CONVENT, I MEAN, AS A HOSPITAL DURING THE BATTLE OF NASHVILLE. THAT WAS THE BATTLE OF FRANKLIN AND THAT ONE, NASHVILLE, WERE VERY BIG BATTLES.>>AND THEY WERE, AS I SAY, CONTRIBUTED SO VERY, VERY MUCH. AND WE TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUAL SISTERS IN THE BOOK BECAUSE SOME WERE SO WELL KNOWN IN THEIR OWN RIGHT FOR THE WORKS OF MERCY THEY WERE TENDERING TESTIMONIALS AND ON THE DEATH, THEY WERE POSTHUMOUSLY AWARDED HONORARY DEGREES AND SUCH AS THAT, CITING THEIR VALOR. AND WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT ABOUT THE SISTERS, THINK, THE FACT THAT FIRST OF ALL, THERE WERE TREMENDOUS NUMBERS OF CONVERSIONS TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH ON THE PART OF THE SOLDIERS WHO EITHER CAME FROM OTHER RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS OR NO RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND AT ALL. THEY WERE RECEIVED INTO THE CHURCH. AND THERE WERE ALSO AN EQUALLY LARGE NUMBER, IF NOT EVEN MORE WHO HAD GIVEN UP THE PRACTICE OF THE FAITH AND CAME BACK TO THE FAITH BECAUSE OF THE INFLUENCE OF THESE MARVELOUS WOMEN. THEY WORKED DAY AND NIGHT UNCOMPLAINING. THEY WERE THE SAINTS OF THE BATTLEFIELD. NO QUESTION BIT. AND THEY WERE, JUST AS I RECALL, FIVE DIFFERENT ORDERS CONTRIBUTING VERY SUBSTANTIALLY. AND WE DO TALK IN THE BOOK ABOUT SOME SPECIFIC SISTERS WHO WERE REALLY WELL KNOWN>>Fr. Pacwa: LET’S TAKE ANOTHER QUESTION FROM THE STUDIO. SIR, WHERE ARE YOU FROM.>>I’M STEVE AND I’M FROM BIRMINGHAM>>Fr. Pacwa: GREAT. AND WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION?>>Voice: FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU, FATHER CONNOR FOR YOUR WORK FOR HISTORY, ESPECIALLY IN THE DAY WE LIVE IN WHEN THE TREND IS TO FORGET HISTORY INSTEAD OF LEARNING FROM IT. BUT MY QUESTION IS, IF YOU COULD SPEND A FEW MINUTES TALKING ABOUT CATHOLIC PRIESTS WHO SERVED IN VARIOUS CAPACITIES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE CONFLICT, EVEN ON THE BATTLEFIELD ITSELF SOMETIMES>>Guest: OH, SURE. PRIESTS REALLY RENDERED A WONDERFUL CONTRIBUTION IN MANY, MANY AREAS. THEY WERE CHAPLAINS, AS YOU SAY, WRITERS, POETS, AND THE LIKE. ONE OF THE FIRST ONES THAT COMES TO MY MIND IN THE UNION ARMY WAS FATHER WILLIAM KORBY. HE WAS A HOLY CROSS PRIEST FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME. AND THERE’S A FAMOUS PAINTING OF FATHER KORBY GRANTING GENERAL ABSOLUTION TO THE SOLDIERS BEFORE THEY WENT OUT IN BATTLE>>Fr. Pacwa: SO FOLKS UNDERSTAND. WHEN YOU ARE GOING OFF TO BATTLE OR YOU ARE ON A SINKING SHIP, OR A PLANE THAT’S CRASHING, YOU CAN HAVE A GENERAL ABSOLUTION BUT NOT WHEN YOU ARE JUST IN A REGULAR PARISH.>>THEN YOU HAVE THE REQUIREMENT TO GO TO CONFESSION. IF THEY WERE IN THE STATE OF MORTAL SIN. THANK YOU, FATHER. I SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT, VERY IMPORTANT.>>EVERY SO OFTEN, WE HAVE PEOPLE GOING FOR GENERAL ABSOLUTION AND THOSE DAYS ARE KIND OF FADING.>>PLEASE, GOD.>>AND IN BATTLE, THOUGH, IT’S A LEGITIMATE THINK>>Guest: OH, SURE, YES, IT WAS. AND INTERESTING STORY OF FATHER KORBY GOING TO SEE PRESIDENT LINCOLN ABOUT, IT WAS A PERSONAL MISSION FOR A MAN WHO IN THE END HE WAS NOT ABLE TO SAVE THIS MAN WAS INVOLVED IN CHICANERY AND FATHER KORBY FELT SORRY FOR HIM AND HE WAS SITTING IN PRESIDENT LINCOLN AND HE GOT UP TO LEAVE, AND PRESIDENT LINCOLN SEEMED SO CONFUSED AND JUST NOT ABLE TO SAY ANYTHING PROPER TO THE PRIEST BECAUSE HE DIDN’T KNOW ENOUGH OF THE INFORMATION AND HE WAS BEFUDDLED AND HE DID NOT WANT TO COME OUT AND SAY, OH, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, I WILL PARDON THEM WITHOUT KNOWING THE SITUATION. AND FATHER KORBY IS LEAVING, AND ALL CORDIAL AND HE SAYS, PRESIDENT LINCOLN, SEE HEAR, I WILL PARDON HIM IF GENERAL SOMEBODY WAS THERE AND AND IT WAS REALLY A LACK OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN, MADE BETWEEN FATHER KORBY AND PRESIDENT LINCOLN. AND HE WAS SCHEDULED FOR EXECUTION. AND NEITHER REALLY WENT TO BAT FOR HIM. AND HE WAS OUTSTANDING. FATHER JAMES GILLAM WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT COMES TO MIND. HE WAS ALSO A HOLY CROSS PRIEST FROM NOTRE DAME. HE WOULD BE FOLLOWING THE LINES. HE WAS ASSIGNED, AND GRANT CAME ACROSS HIM AND ASKED HIM, UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES OR WHY ARE YOU HERE AND SO FORTH. AND GILLAM SAID I’M NOT OFFICIALLY COMMISSIONED, I’M JUST HERE AS A PRIEST. AND GRANT WAS READY TO THROW HIM IN JAIL IMMEDIATELY. AND THEN AGAIN, A FRIEND OF FATHER GILLAM’S WHO GRANT NEW CAME TO THE ATTENTION. AND GRANTED MUCH, MUCH ANTI-CATHOLICISM IN HIM. NO QUESTION OF THAT. PROVEN IN 1807’S AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, TOO, WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT. AND FATHER GILLAM WAS ANOTHER EXAMPLE. AND FATHER JOHN BANNON, NATIVE IRISHMAN, BORN AND RAISED IN IRELAND. HE WAS ACTUALLY SENT BY THE CONFEDERATE GOVERNMENT, BY PRESIDENT DAVIS BACK TO HIS NATIVE LAND TO IRELAND. SO MANY YOUNG IRISHMEN WERE COMING OVER HERE TO THE UNITED STATES AND OVERWHELMING MAJORITY LANDED IN NEW YORK. THEN, THE ENLISTMENT, THEY WERE SIGNING THEM UP FOR THE UNION ARMY AND THEY WANTED TO SEE IF FATHER BANNON IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM COULD DISSUADE THESE MEN FROM AUTOMATICALLY SIGNING UP. AND HE DID THAT. HE WAS A MAGNIFICENT SPEAKER, GOING ALL OVER IRELAND PREACHING IN THE VARIOUS PARISHES TALKING TO THE PEOPLE ABOUT THE INCORRECTNESS OF THE NORTHERN CAUSE. HE EVENTUALLY STAYED IN IRELAND. AND WHAT ORDER DO YOU THINK HE JOINED?>>Fr. Pacwa: SOCIETY OF JESUS>>Guest: ABSOLUTELY. HE WAS A JESUIT IN DUBLIN FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. HE’S ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE. FATHER ABRAHAM RYAN, SO-CALLED POET OF THE CONFEDERACY. LED A SOMEWHAT ROUST ABOUT LIFE AND YOU KNOW, HE WAS CONFEDERATE CHAPLAIN AND WROTE BEAUTIFULLY IN VERSE ABOUT THE CONFEDERATE CAUSE. AND YOU KNOW, PROBABLY ONE OF THE BETTER KNOWN I THINK, OF THE PRIESTS OF THAT PERIOD. FATHER JOHN BANNISTER TAB, ANOTHER VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF A WRITER MUCH IN FAVOR OF THE CONFEDERATE CAUSE. AND HE TAUGHT IN CATONSVILLE, MARYLAND IN HIS DAY. IF YOU WANT ADVOCATES OF THE CONFEDERATE CAUSE, WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU FOUND THEM?>>AT EMETTESBERG.>>MOUNT SAINT MARY SEMINARY. OH, OUR FACULTY WAS PRO SOUTH, STUDENTS. AND WE HAD SO MANY FROM NEW ORLEANS IN THOSE DAYS AND THROUGHOUT LOUISIANA. LOADS AND LOADS. BUT IT WAS REALLY QUITE A HOTBED OF CONFEDERATE SUPPORT IN RIGHT THERE IN EMMETTSBURG.>>AND THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE AREAS OF THE BORDER STATES, SYMPATHY ON BOTH SIDES.>>YES, ABSOLUTELY.>>Fr. Pacwa: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED ABOUT GRANT’S ANTI-CATHOLICISM, THINK THAT HAD A GOOD DEAL TO DO IN THE LATER ON IN THE 1880’S, THE ANTI-CATHOLICISM OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, NO RUM –>>RIGHT, REBELLION. AND THAT WAS IN 1884. YES, IT DID. WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 1870S, NOT LONG AFTER GRANT BECAME PRESIDENT, THERE WAS AN ISSUE INVOLVING BIBLE READING IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN THE UNITED STATES. AND THE AMERICAN BISHOPS OBJECTED, VERY CORRECTLY OBJECTED TO THE FACT THAT OUR CATHOLIC CHILDREN HAD TO GO TO THESE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND LISTEN TO READINGS FROM THE KING JAMES VERSION OF THE BIBLE. HAVING TO READ IT TO THEMSELVES AND LISTEN TO IT OF THE AND THE BISHOPS WERE VERY MUCH OPPOSED THAT THE CATHOLIC CHILDREN HAD TO READ THIS VERSION AND WANTED THEM TO READ THE CATHOLIC VERSION OF THE SCRIPTURES. THE THING BECAME SO HEAT NATURAL DISASTER VARIOUS SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND THE LIKE, DIFFERENT STATE LEGISLATORS ACTUALLY LANDED UP PASSING PIECES OF LEGISLATION OUTLAWING ANY KIND OF BIBLE READING IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. WELL, OF COURSE, THE HOSTILITIES BROKE OUT ONCE AGAIN. BUT GRANT AS PRESIDENT WAS PARTICULARLY VOCAL HOW DECISIVE CATHOLIC SCHOOLS WERE TO AMERICAN LIBERTY AND NUMBER TWO, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHOULD ANY STATE MONIES EVER GO TO THE RUNNING OF CATHOLIC SCHOOLS. AND HE GOT UP AT ONE CONVENTION AFTER ANOTHER EXPRESSING HIS VIEWS. NOT THE MOST PRUDENT THING TO DO WHEN YOU ARE AN INCUMBENT PRESIDENT AND HE SHOWED HIS ANTI-CATHOLIC COLORS AS WELL.>>AND THAT SHOWED UP LATER ON IN THE SUPREME COURT IN 1940S, WITH JUSTICE HUGO BLACK AND OTHERS. SO, WE HAVE ANOTHER CALLER. 0H, JIM?>>Voice: YES.>>Fr. Pacwa: WHERE YOU CALLING FROM?>>I’M CALLING YOU FROM DUBUQUE IOWA.>>Fr. Pacwa: GREAT. AND WHAT’S YOUR QUESTION?>>I WANT THE GOOD FATHER’S INPUT ON THE MISSOURI CONSTITUTION OF 18 — I’M SORRY I HAVE MY NUMBERS MIXED UP, YEAH, 1865, WRITTEN AND PROMULGATED WHILE THE WAR WAS GOING ON BUT ALMOST MADE CATHOLICISM TREASONOUS IN THE U.S.>>YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MISSOURI STATE CONSTITUTION AND WHAT YEAR WAS IT WRITTEN? I’M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE CONSTITUTION THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.>>Voice: 1865.>>Fr. Pacwa: YOU MAY KNOW MORE ABOUT IT THAN WE DO.>>Guest: THIS DOESN’T SOUND FAMILIAR TO ME AT ALL.>>Voice: WELL, THE STATE CONSTITUTION, AS PASSED, MADE IT ILLEGAL FOR ANYBODY WHO OFFERED ANY SUPPORT FOR THE REBEL CAUSE DURING THE WAR IN TERMS OF FOOD, OR CLOTHING, OR ANYTHING WHICH MEANT THAT ALL OF THESE CATHOLIC PRIESTS WHO WERE HEARING CONFESSIONS ON THE REBELS COULD NOT OFFER HOMILIES AND COULDN’T DO MARRIAGES UNLESS THEY WENT DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND SIGNED A DOCUMENT AND SAID THEY HAD NEVER DONE THIS. OF COURSE, THEY COULDN’T. SO, THEY STARTED ARRESTING PRIESTS. AND THE BISHOP OF ST. LOUIS SHOWED UP AT THE POLICE STATION IN FULL REGALIA, MITER, CROSIER AND BIBLE IN HAND TO TAKE HIS PUNISHMENT. AND ONE PRIEST WAS TRIED AND FOUND GUILTY AND BASICALLY WAS TORTURED IN PRISON, LATER ON, HE COMMITTED SUICIDE. BUT IT WAS ONLY BY A SINGLE VOTE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT THAT KEPT THAT FROM BEING ALLOWED, NOT BECAUSE IT WAS ANTIRELIGION BUT BECAUSE IT WOULD EFFECT THE LAWYERS.>>WHAT WAS THE SUPREME COURT CASE? DO YOU RECALL THE NAME OF IT?>>Voice: OH, I WISH I COULD.>>Fr. Pacwa: WE’LL HAVE TO LOOK IT UP.>>THERE ARE SIMILAR STORIES THAT YOU DESCRIBED. AND I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE MISSOURI COMPROMISE WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED, SOME DECADES BEFORE. BUT THAT’S ENTIRELY NEW TO ME, THE MISSOURI CONSTITUTION. AND VERY INTERESTING TO ME. AND SIMILAR ANECDOTES, MORE THAN ANECDOTES WE CALL THAT, THIS KIND OF ANTI-CATHOLICISM AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT SEALED ITSELF IN LEGAL DOCUMENTS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.>>AND THERE’S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THAT ANTI-CATHOLICISM THAT WE STARTED HEARING WHEN CERTAIN CATHOLIC JUSTICES OR JUDGES ARE BROUGHT BEFORE THE SENATE AND IT’S SAID, WELL, YOUR DOCTRINE SPEAKS LOUDLY AND OTHER CRITICISM OF THEM BEING CATHOLIC.>>RIGHT, YEAH, REMINDS ME GOING BACK TO OUR OWN PERIOD. AWFUL LOT OF CRITICISM THRONE AS ROGER BROOK TAWNY, CATHOLIC JUSTICE CAME FROM MARYLAND. NOT TOO FAR. AND HE WROTE THE DRED SCOTT DECISION AND HIS DECISION CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE BEEN AS A RESULT OF HIS OWN JURIDICAL THINKING AND STRONGLY AN ADVOCATE OF THIS COMPACT THEORY OF GOVERNMENT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT. MARSHALL WAS A NATIONALIST, FAVORED A NATIONAL GOVERNMENT. AND TAWNY GAVE MUCH MORE FAVOR TO THE STATES AND THAT’S WHAT MOTIVATED HIM TO SOME DEGREE. AND TAWNY WAS TARRED AND FEATHERED ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES OBVIOUSLY FOR DRED SCOTT; AND IN THE END, HE WAS BURIED IN A CATHOLIC CEMETERY IN ST. LOUIS. I DON’T KNOW THAT HE EVER BECAME FORMALLY A CATHOLIC BUT HE WAS BURIED THERE. AND CHIEF JUSTICE TAWNY IS BURIED AT ST. JOHN’S IN FREDERICK. BRILLIANT LEGAL MIND BUT OBVIOUSLY HIS DECISION FAVORED STRONGLY ONE PART OF THE COUNTRY AND STRONGLY, STRONGLY ANGERED ANOTHER. ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ANTI-CATHOLICISM COMING TO THE FOREFRONT. AND I COME BACK TO ARTHUR SCHLESSINGER, AGAIN, HE SAYS ANTI-CATHOLICISM IS THE DEEPEST BIAS IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.>>AND TODAY, SENATOR HORONO AND OTHERS SHOW THAT. YES. NOW, I WANT TO THANK YOU; AND TODAY, I WANT TO MENTION, TODAY IS THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE 9/11 ATTACKS IN NEW YORK, PENNSYLVANIA, AND WASHINGTON 18 YEARS AGO. AND IN FACT, WHEN THE FIRST TOWER FELL, ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE KILLED WAS A CATHOLIC PRIEST. FATHER JUDGE AND OF COURSE, MANY, MANY OF THE FUNERALS OF THE FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE WERE AT SAINT PATRICK’S AND OTHER CATHOLIC CHURCHES ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE, MUSLIMS, CATHOLIC, JEWS, SHEIKS AND HINDUS WHO DIED, AND LOTS OF PEOPLE DON’T REMEMBER THIS AS WELL, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THIS IS WHEN MOTHER ANGELICA HAD HER STROKE.>>I REMEMBER IT WELL.>>AND THAT HAPPENED JUST A FEW HOURS BEFORE THE ATTACK, ABOUT FIVE HOURS BEFORE THE ATTACKS. SO, IT WAS DOUBLY SHOCKING FOR US HERE. AND I THINK THAT, TO KEEP IN MIND, ONE OF OUR GOALS IS TO PRAY, NOT ONLY FOR THE SOULS OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIED DURING THE ATTACKS. THE ONES WHO DIED IN THE YEARS SINCE, ON MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS, FROM DISEASES, INHALING THAT, AS WELL AS IN FIGHTING AGAINST AL QAEDA. SO, WE WANT TO PRAY FOR THE REPOSE OF ALL OF THEIR SOULS. AND ALSO, WE WANT TO PRAY FOR AN END OF THE MINDSET THAT WOULD WANT TO USE TERROR. THIS IS ONE TYPE OF TERROR, CERTAINLY A RADICAL, ISLAMIC INSPIRED TERROR AND WE SEE IT GOING ON IN STORES, SCHOOLS, LOCAL TERRORISTS WHO ARE KILLING PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY THIS. IS A MINDSET THAT IS EXTREMELY AND SEES THE SOLUTION TO DEATH AS WHAT THEY WANT. WE WANT TO PRAY FOR THE REVERSING OF THAT DEATH TOWARD LIFE AS A GIFT FROM GOD. AND IF YOU WOULD JOIN ME IN THE BLESSING, WE WANT TO BLESS YOU ON THIS MEMORIAL. MAY GOD BLESS YOU, BLESS ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE DIED, AND GIVE THEM ETERNAL REST, AND FILL US WITH HEARTS THAT NOT ONLY FEEL HIS PEACE BUT SHARE IT WITH OTHERS. BLESS YOU IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US AS ALWAYS. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC]

2 thoughts on “EWTN Live – 2019-09-12 – 09/11/19 Fr. Charles Connor

  1. This modernist new mass is a protestant man centered act. St. Pius X warned us about this as well as St. Pius V. Seek out a true Traditional Priest that is against Vatican ll. Homosexuality is rampant in the Vatican ll priesthood. Our Blessed Mother warned us that the bishop, cardinals and priests will be cesspools off impurity. EWTN promotes modernism.

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