Cornel West: How Intellectuals Betrayed the Poor

Cornel West: How Intellectuals Betrayed the Poor


I think one was, there was an idolizing of
unfettered markets. And much if not most of the intelligentsia
were duped. I recall traveling with my dear brother Michael
Harrington and talking with brother Stanley Aronowitz years ago. And you know, here we’re engaged in critiques
of unfettered markets, and it looked as if we were medieval thinkers. Everybody was saying, we’re followers of Milton
Friedman. Everybody was saying Frederick Hayak got it
right. Everybody was saying marketize, commercialize,
commodify, and we were still reading Lukasch. And Lukasch was saying commodification is
not simply an asymmetric relation of power, of bosses vis-à-vis workers, so workers are
being more and more marginalized. Profits are being produced, wealth is being
produced, hemorrhaged at the top, no fair distribution of that wealth or profit for
workers. Poor are being demonized because they are
viewed as those persons who are irresponsible, who will not work, who are always looking
for welfare; i.e., failures in the society of success. And we reached a brink, and the chickens came
home to roost. And a few years ago the unfettered markets
led us off and over the brink. And all of a sudden, very few intellectuals
want to be honest and acknowledge the greed with which they were duped. Don’t want to talk about the inequality that
went along with it. Don’t want to talk about the demonization
of the poor that went along with it. Don’t want to talk about the politics of fear
that produced a Republican Party that was more and more lily-white, using not just race
but also demonizing gay brothers and lesbian sisters, you see. Don’t want to talk about the indifference
toward the poor, and greed being good and desirable and so forth. Now is a very different moment, and it’s not,
you know, just about pointing fingers, but saying somebody’s got to take responsibility. This was a nearly 40-year run. Who paid the cost? As is usually the case, you know, poor working
people paid the cost, disproportionately black and brown and red, you see. So in the age of Obama, we say, okay, can
we have a different kind of discussion? And that’s what we’re trying to do, but of
course you’ve got two wars going on; you’ve got still Wall Street in the driver’s seat
in the Obama administration when it comes to the economic team, you see. And you’ve got very — you know, I think in
some ways unimaginative thinking when it comes to foreign policy, be it the Middle East or
be it European Union or be it Latin America, you know, calling Chavez a dictator; the man’s
been elected! If he’s calling into question rights and liberties,
criticize him as a democratic president. We did the same thing for Bush. Bush was calling into question rights and
liberties; we didn’t call him a dictator. We said he’s a democratically elected president
who’s doing the wrong thing. Chavez ought to be criticized. He’s not a dictator; the man’s been elected. But it’s that kind of demonizing that obscures
and obfuscates the kind of issues that are necessary, because Chavez is also talking
about poor people. So of course I want libertarian and democratic
sides. I want right and liberties and empowerment
of poor people. But talking about poor people is not a joke;
it’s crucial, it’s part and parcel of the future of any serious democratic project. The fundamental question of any democracy
is, what is the relation between public interest and the most vulnerable? That’s the question, you see. That is the question. The test of your rule of law is going to be,
how are the most vulnerable being treated? It’s not whether the torturers are getting
off; we know the torturers don’t have the rule of law applied to them. The wiretappers, they’re getting off scot-free. What about Jamal with the crack bag? Take him to jail for seven years. Oh — so you’ve got a different rule of law
when it comes to Jamal on the corner versus your torturers and your wiretappers? Torture is a crime against humanity; it’s
not just illegal. Wiretapping is illegal, you see. Now, it’s not a crime against humanity, because
I mean, I’m sure I’ve had my phone tapped for years. I don’t think they committed a crime against
humanity; they just ought to quit doing it God dangit. Well, you — I think you keep in mind — I
mean, the demos is always a heterogeneous, diverse — got a lot of xenophobic elements
among the demos — a lot of ignorance, a lot of parochialism. You also have a lot of cosmopolitanism, a
lot of globalism, a lot of courage, moral courage. So the demos is not one thing. But when it comes to the ability of the demos
to organize, mobilize and bring power and pressure to bear, we certainly are in a crisis;
our system is broken. We’ve got seventy one percent of the people
who want universal health care, and you can barely get through a reform bill with a weak
public option. It’s clear lobbyists from the top, pharmaceutical
companies, drug companies have tremendous influence, much more than the demos from below,
you see. So that those preferences don’t get translated
easily because our politicians are beholden to that big money and that big influence. But I mean the demos is still around, thank
God. You’ve got your own institution. Dialog — dialog is the lifeblood of a democracy. You’ve got to allow ideas to flow. You have to expose people to different visions,
alternative arguments and so on, to try to keep the torch of the progressive demos alive. But it’s very difficult to organize it. Complacency is deep; apathy is deep; people
are wondering how can you confront, you know, big finance, big government tied to big finance,
when all you’ve got is these little people, who are willing to talk and so forth, but
have tremendous power bringing serious pressure to bear. We can march; you know, we marched against
the war by the millions. We were ignored by the Bush administration. Some of us went to jail. We were ignored; we couldn’t translate into
foreign policy. That happens sometimes. It was **** Vietnam.

100 thoughts on “Cornel West: How Intellectuals Betrayed the Poor

  1. I can promise you one thing. None of this will stop unless you have a straight up revolution like they are doing in iran. The greed wont stop. And greed doesnt give a fuck about YOU or YOUR FAMILY

  2. it is not the intellectual vs the poor, it is the smart vs the less smart, and smart always wins out for the history of mankind, that is truth ppl like Cornel West cant accept, you cant social engineer out what make all of us human in just a few years when it took million years to shape

  3. Just watched this video, and yes Chavez was a dictator who manipulated the masses, rigged the system, destroyed the economy and left a trail of poverty and misery

  4. Surely Mr. West is not going to lecture us about remaining silent while people are demonized? This is too funny. In fact, it's absurd. Bye Mr. West.

  5. I bet he changed his tune on most of this crap now. Ive heard him speak lately and he font sound like this at all folks.
    Maybe he woke up!!! Hope so.

  6. Dig it.. Our BLACK folk still f'ed in it… Not evolving. No backbone within BLACK reps towards BLACK interests. Miss you Dr. Cornel..
    Silence is not your lane!
    I personally stand corrected for any misconception to character or of principles

  7. I heard a conservative say that the working class is middle class, while he said that liberals believe "working class" is the poor. It was interesting. I think people like Clinton do talk a lot about the middle class, but they mean the professionals AND the blue collar workers. The conservative idea of the middle class is just the blue collar — those between the poor and the upper middle class professionals. So, in this sense, this writer was saying that Trump had a more targeted — or in tune — message for those blue collar voters than Hillary did. Of course, it has also been pointed out that a lot of wealthy seniors and rich people supported Trump, too.

  8. Cornel Ronald West is an American philosopher which means he is an Intellectual. He is part of the social problem!

  9. Complaining about capitalism, in reality those problems are caused by corporatism/statism and then he goes on saying that the right is racist, homophobic, etc. This dudes entire argument sound retarded.

  10. Examined Life – Cornel West" Hitller was cheated and mislead by bigbangist evolutionists fakse science.- uncertainity….etc.
    Are you trying to cheat Donald Trump by false science ?, stop babbling man!
    thank you, sir.

  11. Free markets didn't lead to the crash of 2008. The government kept bailing out failing banks which made the banks take higher risks which led to even more banks failing and the chain reaction ended up causing a recession.

  12. BIBLE — RELATIVE MORALITY
    As Christian morality is based on the Bible, as all Bibles are identical in thought to the Catholic Vulgate Bible authored by one man, a politician named Jerome, as the Vulgate is so saturated with contradictions as to make morality a relative and meaningless thing, as the Vulgate started the Dark Ages with it's Christian Crusades — to defend such a Bible faith you must defend satanic mysteries to numerous to mention. Such as:

    1. How can we convict the rich that hoarding wealth is satanic, when Luke 18:29 promises rich Christians they are: "to receive many times as much in this age"? The effect of which is why the rich rule Christianity and publish all the Bibles therein.

    2. Why did Jerome miss-translate Matthew 5:38 to read: "Do not oppose an evil man, if they strike you on the right cheek…"? For the word "man" is not in the inspired ancient Greek Text and the true translation makes it impossible to be a Christian without being a pacifist.
    For it is written:

    "You have read that it was commanded by Moses, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'
    I now say to you: Do not use force to overcome evil. Instead, whenever you are
    struck on the right cheek you must turn to them also the other. And one prosecuting
    you in court, in order the cloak of yours to take, give him also your coat.”

    3. In Romans 13:1 the word "ordained," it is pure fiction. Otherwise, Christians would be commanded by God to fight in wars created by Satan. For it is written:

    "Every man – government with its deadly force he must be in submission to. Never for an absolute is there force that kills if not under God. The reason being, by God it is allowed to prove the corruption of it." Ro 13:1

    3. How can anyone trust the word of Christ or John the Baptist, when Bible fiction states that they both died with a dead faith? Surely fiction, for it is written:

    "The Father of mine! The Lord of me! May it be now, the departure of me?" Mark 15:34

    "John proclaimed… You are the one to come and we must expect and trust it will be!” Matthew 11:2

    4. Christianity is split down the middle over the issue of saved by grace or saved by a subjective emotion called faith.
    All because the inspired: "He who knows the future…"
    was by Jerome turned into the satanic: "those God foreknew…"
    For it is written:

    "He who knows the future has predestined a few to conform to the exact likeness of his Son, who was the first one brought to life of all the brothers. And those he predestined he surely calls, and those who are called, he surely makes righteous, meaning harmless. And those who are harmless, he most surely will glorify." Romans 8:29

  13. BIBLES — ALL PUBLISHED BY THE RICH
    1. How can we convict the rich that hoarding wealth is satanic, when Luke 18:29 promises rich Christians that they are: "to receive many times as much in this age"? The effect of which is why the rich rule Christianity and publish all the Bibles therein.

  14. A bit off topic:
    You know what would be great, If a governmental structure that is heavily reliant upon human decision making is replaced with algorithmic alternatives. Data samples will be taken across all time frames, from all fields and with this data the algorithms will optimize all governmental expenditures and decision making. Unbiased, objective, direct and accountable. All decisions and resource distributions will have justifications provided along with it. The code for the algorithms itself would be open to public eyes. This would be a great alternative and eliminate all the greed, corruption, secrecy, incompetence, inefficiency and destructive natures that humans bring with their decisions.

    Far enough into the future, money, mortgage payments and social bondage from debt will be completely erased when machines that will self maintain and regulate themselves, completely replacing humans and removing scarcity for good. It's possible but of course the question is what then, would people do if they would lose their raison d'etre? People born into a system so different will have a different meaning of what life is and will naturally find their own equilibrium.

  15. 0:18 Inteligencia were a high ranking social and political class in Eastern-block Communist countries. I can already tell this man is a Marxist.

  16. His comments about Chavez have aged very, very badly. His point about phone tapping and torturers vs the common man however, is worth listening to.

  17. Poor people that don't learn a marketable skill is the problem. Look at the poor people in China. Millions have pulled themselves out of poverty in a brutal environment where welfare doesn't even exist. Cornel West is dead wrong.

  18. "Fair" is being paid what you have to offer is worth, in goods or labor. You shouldn't expect to be paid the price of a horse for a hare. You shouldn't expect to be paid for the labor of a lawyer as a laborer. If you have nothing to offer, nothing is what you should receive. Oh, and don't forget, they're also arresting Bubba the meth dealer. And giving him the same sentence as Jamal on the corner.

  19. WATCH OUT — Bible fiction creates no-morality hypocrites
    1. Bible says we must be a pacifist who turns the other cheek and never goes to court. Also, Bible says that we must bear the sword and kill in war as “God’s servant.” And this is why U.S. killer-cops and fighter-bomber pilots are “God’s servant,” and why Christians executing every major war since the Christian Crusades was done with a guilt-free conscience. Mt 5:38 and Ro 13:1

    2. Bible says that we must give all our wealth to the poor. Also, it says that we shall “receive many times as much in this age.” And this is why Christians, from the laboring-class to the rich, feel no guilt for the one billion humans now slowly starving to death. Mt 19:21 and Lk 18:29

    3. Even though the inspired manuscripts of the New Testament contain none of contradiction and fiction found in the first Bible, the Catholic Vulgate Bible, even though the Vulgate Bible turned Christianity into a war-hawk fake morality such that it started the Dark Ages and Christian Crusades, all Bibles are identical in thought and morality to the Vulgate Bible. Truth is, all Bibles were published by the rich and for the rich they have been the best source of power, glory and wealth the world has ever known.

    4. Bible says that owning slaves is not a sin, so long as you are not brutal. And this is why, without a shred of guilt, Christians help to make slaves of the 50% working poor. For the more intelligent upper-half of society, including Christians, own all the land, own all the wealth and enslave the 50% working poor by poverty wages. Eph 6:9

    5. Nothing wrong with competition, according to the Bible. For this reason, without a shred of guilt, most Christians enrich themselves upon the misery of anyone who has less education, less wealth or less whiteness of skin.

    6. Lies are not a sin, according to Bible believers, except in a court of law.

    7. Because of the Bible, Christians believe that Christ and John the Baptist had absolute faith. But also, that both Christ and John died without faith. Result being, that Bible believers have such a relative morality when it comes to faith, that virtually none believe that faith is faithfulness to the will of God. Instead, whether your saved only by grace, or only by faith, what difference does it make? Mk 15:34 and Mt 11:2

    8. When 40 Bible Text say that only the chosen few get saved, while 12 Text say that everyone has the freedom to chose salvation, when in reality less than 5% of humans have ever been saved, only a fool would say that the Bible does more good than harm.

    9. God created planet earth for one purpose, to show how impossible it is to have compassion, pity or charity in a world void of gratitude. Surely, to show that without gratitude, no one can perform an act of love and everyone sins to high heaven. But not so says all the Bibles, all published by the rich, for we must have such faith in the rich telling us the truth, that we ignore all factual logic and except on blind faith that sinful planet earth was created just so that Christ could end sin on the cross. Mt 6:12, 1 Jo 1:9

    10. Comes now the 2,000 years after the cross and Christian nations to use the Bible as an excuse to execute all the major wars, all the invasions and colonization, all of the deaths by nuclear cremation, most of the nukes now loaded, aimed and ready to fire and to generate 90% of the over-production that has caused global warming.

    10. According to the Bible, we must have such a fake morality as to believe that Christ is a deceiver who pretends to look for figs. Mark 11:13

    11. According to the rich and their Bible, we are to have such a sick faith as to believe that a naked man ran after Christ in the dark. Mark 14:51

    12. Even though the inspired ancient Greek New Testament always puts the word God before the word Son, namely “God the Son,” all Bible destroy Christ’s divinity by the fiction of “the Son of God.” Which is why rich Jehovah Witnesses are able to get away with saying that Christ is just a man and that we are all equally sons of God. Mt 14:33, Mt 27:54, 2 Cor 1:19

    13. According to the Bible, adultery is only a temporary mistake — Just forgive and forget Acts 5:1

    14. According to the Bible, even though Christ created the Ten Commandments, Christ abolished forever and ever all Commandments. Ro 7:4

    15. The Bible turned the second coming of Christ into complete nonsense. Ro 8:19

    16. Gratitude toward God is expressed 338 times in the inspired Greek — Not once in the Bible.
    17. Christians love to punish. 2 Cor 10:6
    18. Faith in God — Based on faith in people 2 Th 3:4
    19. God the Holy Spirit — Only a holy spirit Mt 12:32, Mk 1:8, Lk 1:1
    20. Fiction 1 Cor 10:1
    21. Fiction 1 Cor 7:29
    22. Fiction Phil 2:20
    23. Fiction Jo 7:53 to 8:11
    24. Fiction 1 Tim 5:5
    25. Fiction Mt 27:51, 53

  20. People are so brainwashed today due to the media & social media. Some outsider rises up with his own money to defeat "the crooked system" and the people turn their backs on the guy and make up phony story after phony story to get rid of the guy. People like the broken, corrupt system, they've been told.

  21. Can I ask you about Jamal? Who forced him to sell crack? The crack dealer is the victim in this scenario? What are you smoking?

  22. Dr. West is correct as I recall discussion at college level with instructor (inside classroom) to emphatic declare immigration good for US..
    great for U.S. but horrible for black folk… And she (instructor) was black pushing straight garbage. Facts for U.S. tho' not correct for Black America

  23. Black intelligentsia has been DECEIVED BY INTERGRATION. They fool themselves by thinking that white people give a damn about their advice. These people should be helping educate people who are on the lower level

  24. Professor West, I certainly heard all your points repeatedly and I agreed with them but I think the left has become racebaiting. Demonising is bad. Calling the unsuccessful losers.

  25. when the corparations,rich and bigots rule by illigle means,its time to call in the dictator and his trialli.
    they set things back to democry,when the heritics don't listen,because they are insane and have no reason,
    the dictor will come forth and set things right back to what the people need and want and stop this laughable talk of "justice" on "news",for the true dictator is justice as triarri,and they are the weakest and strongest link in command for the empire,
    a time of reconining is near,
    hear enlightment or be curled by the legions of unkown number,your days are shorter then your ego,and that it be large,
    but you are human,and a human body is weak without a strong brain,and if the brain be weak,you are weak and unfit to rule.
    ruling is to the people,legends speak of this,but these are fanticy,as most men and women born in power pass that curse on to their children,just look at king luie!!!,spelling doesn't show brains or skill,you don't even know how to test it,
    I know you ego driven lunitics can read this,because im on the computer,and you had to seise that too,like everything else,
    through bribes,curroption,threts,and lies,i might as well call you a hive mind,as the minor differnces don't really matter to your main ideas and goals,
    the reason you spy is because you are weak and lack emotions,or are merly a weak chacter in stature,theres no real threte to you is there?,
    that's why you fools hide behind guns and well skilled solders,and why you hide behind lies and projection on the sceens,and bribe naïve people like on youtube to spred your influence because you lack the conviction to look into a mirror and see your own faults,
    I have seen both mine and yours,and I and earth are to be damned by your lack of self reflection,if you wont take responsibility for your actions you damned inosenles,fooloish,stup,self obsorbed,non empithetic wusslings,then goddammat!!!,I wil do it for you!!!!!

  26. Excellent video. I totally agree with the professor. I will just add a small item and say that the fault lies with both the Democratic and Republic party.

  27. race baiterm,and white should not represent black, blacks should represent their own , so cornel should immigrate to saudi to arabia, cornel talks shit

  28. Wow, brother! Your communist agenda is hanging out.
    Globalisation has lifted millions worldwide out of poverty. Globalisation has saved millions of children's lives and enhanced the numbers receiving at least a foundational education.
    By taking a purely national US perspective and demonising globalisation you play right in to the hands of the Trump brigade.

  29. I love this man! Not saying he's right about everything but he is a humanitarian that refers to all people as brothers and sisters! He doesn't seem to be dividing, but uniting ALL!

    I can't help but trust his opinions.

  30. He is a Bernie supporter, which I have been. Still am. But I'm eyeballing Andrew Yang as well. The US might not be ready for what he proposes, but I'm in his, and Sanders corners.

  31. Intellectuals put rationality and reason above other concerns. Otherwise, they're just inteligent. Dr West is an intellectual. People who merely use their intelligence for deception or undisclosed selfish motives are not. Their concern is not reason and rationality.

  32. 💘 THE INTERVIEW WITH HIM AN RICHARD WOLF ON KARL MARX… CANT SEEM TO TAKE TOO MUCH OUT OF CONTEXTS THE TRUTH SOMETIMES IS PLAN MAYBE NOT SIMPLE…

  33. I do not like Cornel West. I use to tolerate his existence before he went on to the FOX news cable in 2015 and criticized President Obama. Cornel fails to realize that President Obama could not make a recommendation of laws for one group of people. He was also instrumental in helping Hillary to lose the election against Trump by continuing to cause confusion on behalf of B. Sanders. I believe Cornel voice goes to the highest bidder.

    Let's be very clear – women whether white or black are not going to win, Corey Brooker is not going to win, Bernie Sanders is too far to the left to win. Biden is our best chance to win back the White House. Biden must move to the middle because if elected he will represent the left and right Americans. Cornel West is only filling his own pocket.

  34. Favorite phrase: “wiretapping ain’t a crime against humanity, I’ve had my phone tapped but, they ought to quit doing it” lmaooooo! Truth teller can’t be silenced…

  35. All these "free market" assholes are doing is twisting reality into pretzels to justify them getting theirs first, and the rest of us getting stuck with austerity.

  36. I have no issue with markets. I have issue with control of markets. Markets are inherently controlled by those with the most capital thus markets are not free never have been free and never will be free as long as there is capitalism. Capitalism and markets are not the same thing.

  37. Here in the State of New Jersey the birthing place for the ratification of the Declaration of Independence there is a State sponsored effort to create harm and more . As I have said before I have provided the names of the alleged individuals involved in the harm created as I said F as in Frank and B as the Business and I as information was provided to them and I as its over I'm here. Christ Died for Me to be here and Im going to share my story. F – Frank B- Business I- Its ok. Hopefully my spelling is correct.

  38. THIS VIDEO IS BULLSHIT!

    WHY?!! BECAUSE THIS MORON MAKES THE POOR AND THE WORKING CLASS THE SAME – THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE NOT!

    IN AMERICA THERE EXISTS THE POOR, THE WORKING CLASS, AND THE UPPER CRUST (THE 1%). THE SOCIALIST NEVER TOUCH THE 1%, BECAUSE THE 1% HAVE ALWAYS RUN ALL COUNTRIES, INCLUDEING AMERICA AND ALL SOCIALIST COUNTRIES. ALL COUNTRIES HAVE THE POOR, AND WE SHOULD HELP THEM – BUT WHAT THE IDIOT SOCIALIST DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE WORKING CLASS FOOT THE BILL FOR ALL THEIR VAIN IDEAS OF THIS OR THAT FOR FREE – NOTHING IS FREE!

    THE WORKING CLASS CAN NOT FEED THE WHOLE WORLD, NOR EVEN THE POOR IN OUR OWN COUNTRY! WHAT THE SOCIALIST ARE ABOUT (OR MAY I SAY WHAT THE 1% WILL ALLOW THEM TO GET AWAY WITH) IS THE EXTERMINATION OF THE WORKING CLASS PEOPLES! ONCE AMERICA IS TORN DOWN TO TWO GROUPS; THE 1% AND THE POOR – THEN THEY CAN CONTROL EVERY THING, BECAUSE THEN AMERICA WILL BECOME A TRUE WELFARE STATE – THEN ALL PEOPLE WILL OWE THEIR SOUL TO THE COMPANY STORE – WE THE WORKING CLASS OF PEOPLE NEED TO UNITE, IF WE ARE TO SURVIVE, BECAUSE IF WE ARE ELIMINATED THEN THE 1% WILL BE LOOKED TO FOR OUR FOOD AND HOUSEING – STEP OUT OF LINE, THEN YOU GO HUNGER OUT IN THE COLD!

    YOU BETTER BELIEVE THE 1% ARE ROOTING FOR THESE SOCIALIST HATE MONGERS – BECAUSE IF THEY WIN, BIG BROTHER WILL HAVE US ALL ENSLAVED!

  39. 🤓🤓🤓🤓All that just to say the strong prey on the backs of the weak, thru intelligence, money, power, or all three.😮😮😮😮

  40. If you’re an intellectual and you become intellectually dishonest, then you’re no longer an intellectual
    You’re just a hack

  41. sleaze bag, an democrat mouth piece, n vitimmentality, muble jumble.it never good, just bs talk, makes no sense, while black democrats run their opwn city, really talks shit, forget obama was on the stairing wheel,

  42. I shouldn’t have laughed at this video but I guess the Democratic Party was a great deal different back in 2011

  43. IS ARE BROTHER DR. CORNELL WEST, "BLACK (IL-LUMINATTI) BOUL'E?!?" OR (JUST) A "BRILLIANT "GLOBALIST" FOOL…" "USEFUL BRILLIANT IDIOT…" HE'S GOOD! SAID O.J..

  44. This guy came across as a hater in the Obama years. Now we are all catching up. The progressive movement is growing every year.

  45. LOL – talk about ZERO self-awareness by a typical leftard: How Intellectuals Betrayed the Poor……as explained bt a betraying intellectual. Fuckin Alice in wonderland shit right here.

  46. Cornell you are too smart for the average American. I really don’t think they understand what you are talking about. Honestly. You are so deep brother and they keep the people uneducated on purpose so they can’t fight the power

  47. Dr. Cornel West is so brilliant, articulate, and empathetic. I love him so much. Tell it, my brother! Much love! ❤️💕

  48. He is wrong about the demos. The demos is a privileged minority by definition which was the pederast warrior elite in ancient Greece and which is the propertied capitalist class today. Thanks to colonialism and German idealism, now we understand that those who don't own capital are really non-beings and certainly not part of the demos. This also means that the demos can never ever be progressive either. All you have to do is look at how Socrates ended up.

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